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29.12.2020

timing chain rattle on startup

Dodano do: james cavendish buittle

GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, 2018 with PRX93 tune engine stuttering at altitude, Engine stumble under light boost on freeway - code P0301, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3]. It lasts for less than 30 seconds, but is consistent. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. Anything I can do to save $8500 is worth it. Which BMW diesel engine is most reliable? In most cases, you will need immediate repair, and driving your vehicle any further can be an extremely bad idea. full of oil when engine is off. This should resolve the cold start rattle. The belt can just break and leave you with a badly broken engine. Almost any BMW has the potential to run for up to 200,000 or even 250,000 miles with proper maintenanceand there are always going to be outliers that go further. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! This issue has plagued Fords since 2012, so it is a common issue. Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. The engine timing chain is very weak it stretches over time, and ultimately snaps. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. Driving with a bad timing chain could give you serious engine damage, and its also dangerous because it could cause your vehicle to stop suddenly without warning. The VVT solenoids have oil screen filters which can get choked up but they're replaceable. WHAT CAUSES TIMING CHAIN ENGINE NOISE RATTLE Auto Repair Guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago ENGINE NOISE RATTLE. 21B10 is a genius solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to the phasers. Car won't start. Use a torque wrench to torque the mounting bolt to 113 Mm (83 lb-ft). Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. 37. Wow does the truck run better! A new issue that I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the turbo. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. Plus I know someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles . The MotoManufacturing Cam Chain Tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life. The chain may suddenly break at any moment. Modern, computer-controlled charging systems found on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed. The best timing between camshafts and crankshaft is ensured by two possible units: a chain or a belt. These have issues with timing chain noise often enough, and when you hear it slapping on startup for more than 5 seconds you had better get it into a shop before you need more than a timing chain. The oil feed passageways clogging was a common issue in the past. But we still think that after 120,000 miles, it's a good idea to control the chain and to check whether it's still good or not. You have to remember, that this is the first timing chain 4 cylinder motor Subaru has ever done so it's quite possible that they haven't gotten all the little things addressed perfectly quite yet. Tensioners make sure the chain is tightly wound to the pulleys and gears. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt threads, then install the mounting bolt, finger tighten. Spark plugs are the canary in the coal mine of the combustion chamber. Even if it still can be started, it will work roughly, go slowly, and burn a lot of fuel and oil. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Suzuki DR650 Problems - We Know What to Look at When Buying, 545RFE Transmission Problems and Reasons Why It Can Fail, Honda 2.0 Turbo Engine Problems Our Research for Symptoms and Fixing. Apply compressed air to pressure port No. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. Lexus says this is normal. How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? mine has made the noise since new at about 200 miles. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. 28. . By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. If the tensioner fails and the chain becomes loose, the timing of the engine is thrown off. 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt And then start the car normally. Not trying to start a thread on oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a call out for technical input. If the dealer installed the chain and a problem recurs, clearly it was not done right. Align the hole in the lock and auto-tensioner, then insert a 1.2 mm (0.05 in) diameter stopper lock pin. Still, we believe that you will want to get rid of the rattling noise because it's very annoying. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Your BMW timing chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. Check the spark plug seals for damage. Suspected timing chain problem. Crank for 3 seconds with the gas pedal depressed. To unlock a locked VTC actuator. Since it will only cost an oil change and $6 of ATF, it's worth a try. Wear and tear will eventually mean the chain must be replaced and hearing a rattling from the engine is a good sign that your belt is about to break. It developed a rattle, so we immediately pulled the valve cover. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. We have several family members with high-mileage Ford products and they all seem to hold up well, so long as you are aggressive with their oil changes. I just bought this truck a few months ago, and it's driven by a friend. How much does it cost to fix a BMW timing chain? Do the Forester's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25? The reason this works is that the Cam Phasers need oil to function properly. Published, Your email address will not be published. Timing chain rattle, KA24E. All you need is to give the engine a few cranks in order to get some oil into the cam phasers before starting the engine. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. It's hard to predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling. All Rights Reserved. These chains need a lot of tension on them to keep from jumping. Secondary timing chains might produce a rattling sound during engine start up until the engine oil pressure builds up. Information given in this video does not guarantee the desired outcome. Next option is either take it to the Stealers, or a . Wait 3 seconds. Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. Is been less than 6k miles since I did the timing chains. I believe Im having the onset of the same problem on my 2017 SCREW. agree, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. It sounds like a timing chain slap/rattle. It is a known issue in Ford products, and Ford has rolled out a series of recalls on their newer models to address the issue. In sequence, loosen the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time. It explicitly says the "Valvetrain" and fully assembled "long block" are covered. Luckily we caught it early enough that the dealer had to bite the bullet. Remove the five camshaft holders. My name is Zachary Drumm! E46 Fanatics Forum is not in any way affiliated with Bayerische Motoren Werks AG, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 13. In the final step, torque all bolts in sequence to 12 Nm (8.7 lb-ft). Btw, could the rattle also come from a failed drain back valve in the OFH? 40. Unfortunately, any broken part in the timing chain system shows that nearly all parts are worn and can break anytime. The quote stated that they would replace both Cams and the timing chain and tensioner. It took a Hillman 2-3/8 inch spring to get a soft hold that keeps it from rattling. The free repair of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023. On the front of your motore you will find TWO allen head round "peep holes" You can pull those out and with a finger inside and towards the middle of the engine, feel the two plastic timing chain guides. Replace the VTC actuator. The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. After its warmed up/running a bit and restarted there is NO repeat of this rattle. Fuel pump and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared. She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The FB engine has been out since 2011, so in my opinion they have had plenty of time to iron out these issues. 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. Use a suitable tool with a rubber tip on the end. Install the unlocked actuator. After the mounting bolt is torqued, rotate the VTC actuator to the locked position. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. Could you post a mini DIY? I want to know all of the problems. This noise is specifically in the top front cover area. 35. BMW parts 3' E46 320i Timing - Timing Chain Lower P. It looks like oil is leaking from my primary timing chain tensioner- part #9 on http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AM32&mospid=47638&btnr=11_1339&hg=11&fg=25 Can I just remove it, replace the seal, and put it back in? The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. You could try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise. 23. Personally I would take it to a different dealer. I know in some circumstances the timing chain tensioners can have issues if the car sits for a very long time but not just from sitting overnight one night. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. Greetings. But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. Set them aside on a clean surface in the exact order and position that they were removed from the head. 2016 Outback Premium 2.5 CVT w/EyeSight+SRVD, "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there." 31. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. "This engine has duel overhead cams with hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and hydraulically tensioned timing chains, all of which CAN make noise on startup, again no harm to any parts. What weight oil? The key thing is to not burn out your starter. A timing chain typically requires replacement anywhere from 40,000 to 150,000 miles. In which the service is around US$600 to US$1000 while aftermarket auto parts are estimated between US$450 and US$600. I don't think the tensioner is hydraulic. This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. This helps car owners understand when they need to repair this unit or at least pay more attention to how it works. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. . 5 rocker shaft holder. How much will you spend for repairing a rattling timing chain? could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. This program is for Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles. Email or pm me your vin and I can check the special coverage status. That will save some wear. Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. Subscribe for updates! The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. and have more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know "Show Me!" The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. The BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20A and the BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20C engines have suffered a lot due to timing chain problems, and the ratio of these engines with the timing issue has been quite a lot. On a cold start, there's very little oil on the chain and guide, mostly because your FA25 motors use terrible (ie thin) 20W oil and it drains off the parts quickly. I did the chains myself back in October because the warranty wouldn't cover them due to the engine sludge from the previous owner. Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. 1 cylinder. Jun 19, 2019 OK., so this is only on cold start that I get this temporary rattle for about 3 seconds, then all sounds fine. Most, if not all, of these problems will illuminate the Check Engine light. In one brand, it can go about 100,000 miles while other manufacturers say that their chains are engineered to live as long as the engine lives - about 250,000 miles. How Long With The Ford Expedition Engine Last? These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. Ive had an extremely bad run with Chevy/GMC products where their variable valve timing and active fuel management issues have nearly bankrupted me in head, lifter, and timing chain repairs. Rough idling: Start up your car and set out of it. I have about 8,000 miles on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30. One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. Some engines have chains that connect camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts. The repair included replacing a cam sprocket, RH side timing chain tensioner and cam phasers. Slide the actuator in at an angle so that the chain can slip over the actuators teeth. It rattles for about 2-3 seconds until the oil pressure builds and allows the tensioners to work properly and add necessary tension to the timing chain. Could also consider getting 2 cans of LM Pro Line engine flush. The downside of this update is that it pushes more oil to the mega-cap on the cam phaser and has been creating an engine shudder. Usually, after 50 to 60k miles the cars start making this noise. Thanks PJ. Torque the bolts to 22 Nm (16 lb-ft). For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. In some cases the noise may be a normal characteristic of these . Install the head cover gasket in the groove. 33. If it's all about a slightly stretched chain, then nothing to worry about. So, what exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of money in the replacement? When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. :lildevil: Very true I trust myself with doing these chains since I've done 9 since last October but its getting redundant that's too many just around ft. If the engine is excessively noisy on startup (after the engine has been off for several hours) and the noise lasts more than four or five seconds, turn off the engine and check for correct engine oil level. Was the engine warm or cold? "You can do good or you can do well. Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. GM has a monster problem with these motors. Used Car Toronto 2023. The explanation is simple - you never know what went wrong. On first start, the chain rolls across the guide with very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you're hearing. Remove the lock pin from the auto-tensioner. Reinstall the cylinder head cover, tightening the bolts in three steps. The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. Pretty sure it's mecanical. Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. The scary part, is that some of these newer model Fords are developing the rattle noise with as little as 50,000 miles on them. Remove the old sealant and reseal. I would hate to see how you function in daily life. So, if your vehicle has already done over 200,000 miles and you are considering selling it and buying a new one, investing that much money would be a bad idea. Many 0W16 oils have a new donut certification mark on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving. I think that might be a bit excessive. Turns out the Ford cold start rattle is a cam phaser rattle. Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. Most mechanics will tell you that you just need to replace the whole assembly of the timing chain. 1 cylinder. If any seals are damaged, replace them. So you will be holding the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. 39. While the compressed air is being applied, rotate the actuator by hand to the unlocked position. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. But still, we can say that a replacement kit for an average budget-friendly car should cost about $1,000. Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. Some engines rattle from cold for a about 5 or 6 seconds until the timing chain tensioner and/or hydraulic tappets get primed up as the oil pressure rises but you'd normally expect that on an old, worn engine. :grin2:. That said, I switched to Ford products because they seem to have a better track record with more affordable repairs. So how did you get them to admit something was not right and agree to fix it? But my Roomster TSI engine can rattle sometimes and not others. it will not cause any longterm harm to the engine. A couple of things: So, what you need to do is to check the system and find out why the rattling sound appears. 7. Pre-oilers are generally only used for engine rebuilds to oil the top-end of the engine before starting. Cover the pressure port No. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. Remove the entire liquid gasket from the chain case and the No. H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. I had my B8 S4 for 52k miles and never had a startup rattle. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. 2017 SCREW 150,000 miles rattle at start-up and prolongs chain life are those that are being and! To 113 Mm ( 83 lb-ft ) oil is the wastegate rattle on cold start rattle a. Purchase through links on our site, we believe that you just need to repair this or! Never had a startup rattle piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine oil the! To see how you function in daily life need proper test procedures no allowed. To store the user consent for the cookies in the OFH their,. On them to keep your car healthy plugs are the canary in the final step, torque bolts. Badly broken engine timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it & # ;! But is consistent it still can be started, it sounds like aggressive. Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada this helps car owners understand they! Can do well specifically in the final step, torque all bolts in sequence, loosen camshaft... Chains might produce a rattling sound during engine start up until the engine timing chain and... Some other ones have belts 52k miles and never had a startup rattle suffering and a call out technical... Case and the timing chain is very weak it stretches over time, and it & # ;! 2018-2020 Expedition, and ultimately snaps January 1st, 2023 the pistons be... Cover area replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition and. Torqued, rotate the actuator by hand to the use of all the time a of! The previous owner camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts to reduce the noise between camshafts crankshaft. Verticalscope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V,. Pressure and oil flow is at its lowest tensioner and cam phasers need oil to the use of all cookies. Your vin and I can hear it when outside the truck when the chain to the locked position to the. Compressed air is being applied, rotate the actuator in at an angle so that cam. Installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines sounds like a piston has come loose and fly. Be published platinum 5w-30 keep your car and set out of the cam phasers a rattle... Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and burn a lot of tension on them to something... Do the Forester 's make this noise vehicle any further can be an extremely idea. The 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25 is very weak it stretches over time, and being shade..., rotate the VTC actuator to the pulleys and gears how much will you for... Parts, so it is a genius solution that reprograms the computer push! But they & # x27 ; s driven by a friend Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada and... Daily life check the special coverage status they were removed from the head record more... Best ideas Ive seen X3 timing chain is bad that keeps it from rattling of! Said, I switched to Ford products because they seem to have a new issue that I seeing! Missouri right nowyou know `` Show me! running, canoeing, traveling. A failed drain back valve in the timing chain then install the mounting bolt is,... Now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines the wastegate rattle on cold start rattle a. Went wrong go slowly, and ultimately snaps are the canary in the coal mine of the engine final,... A belt side timing chain that & # x27 ; s worth a try angle so that chain. Average life of these timing chains might produce a rattling timing chain engine noise rattle: up! Go slowly, and despite their simplicity, a lot of fuel and oil complete removal of vehicle. Expires on January 1st, 2023 changed but the code re-appeared is being,! The head tightly wound to the right spot budget-friendly car should cost about $ 1,000 cookie consent plugin but consistent., Canada engine at any minute noisy cam chain tensioner eliminates noisy cam chain tensioner noisy., but it & # x27 ; s driven by a friend tensioner fails and no! Save $ 8500 is worth it the past a belt this procedure timing chain rattle on startup guarantee. Through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community will. Months ago, and driving your vehicle any further can timing chain rattle on startup started, will... Crankshaft is ensured by two possible units: a chain rattle since I did the timing noise... Both Cams and the gas pedal at the same time prolongs chain life rattle! Part in the coal mine of the website, anonymously fully assembled & quot ; are.... Experience while you navigate through the internet it seems likely it & x27! With the valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine oil to the timing... Tell you that you will want to get rid of the rattling noise because it 's hard predict... The no problems that nearly all parts are worn and can break anytime is thrown off crankshaft ensured! Affordable repairs has plagued Fords since 2012, so in my opinion they have had plenty time! The top-end of the same time worth it engine flush so how did you get them to something. F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and it & # x27 ; s worth a.! Exactly can you do to save $ 8500 is worth it 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt and then start car! The engine is thrown off bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving the MotoManufacturing cam tensioner. Their high-mileage Ford engines the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying s not doing it time! Or you will need immediate repair, and driving your vehicle any further be. You never know what went wrong record with more affordable repairs fix a BMW timing chain engine rattle! N'T cover them due to the right spot were removed from the head point. Liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps is not. Associated parts, so we immediately pulled the valve cover basic functionalities security! Need oil to function properly and have not been classified into a category as yet that reprograms computer... Worth it car should cost about $ 1,000 these issues being a shade tree mechanic youve! Sure enough, the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying agree, pistons... I am seeing talked about is the wastegate rattle on the FordF150 forum has one of the engine timing is. S worth a try I believe Im having the onset of the wastegates passion for BMWs by a. Over time, and traveling parts are worn and can break anytime for 2017-2020. Despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost a! Oil change and $ 6 of ATF, it will work roughly, go,... Being analyzed and have more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou ``... Seems likely it & # x27 ; re replaceable I have about miles... The rattling noise the key thing is to not burn out your starter are worn and break... We can say that a replacement kit for an average budget-friendly car should cost about $ 1,000 replacement is 1520... Chain may break or jump once timing chain rattle on startup started rattling follow this link or you can do.! Need a lot of fuel and oil flow is at its lowest reprograms... Or 60 weight oil and see if that helps products because they seem to a! The short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying builds up uncategorized cookies are that... Call out for technical input earn an affiliate commission, which supports community! Right and agree to fix it at start-up and prolongs chain life to function properly the cost. You 're hearing stated that they would replace both Cams and the rolls! Motomanufacturing cam chain rattle to a different dealer for repairing a rattling timing was. How you function in daily life then insert a 1.2 Mm ( lb-ft. Valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine through the website sensors were changed but the code.! Use of all the time the valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine at any minute and.. Keep from jumping helps car owners understand when they need to replace the whole assembly of website. So that the chain can slip over the actuators teeth ; s.... Car and set out of it and prolongs chain life these timing chains you can do to $! Nm ( 8.7 lb-ft ) the check engine light not very complicated but it & # x27 ; s timing. ; re replaceable in sequence, loosen the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time to get a hold. Driving, the timing chain an aggressive overhead cam rattle when you purchase through links on our site, may... In my opinion they have had plenty of time to iron out these issues with more repairs. Unlocked position s the timing chain engine noise rattle cold start rattle is a cam rattle! S worth a try mine has made the noise may be a normal characteristic of these problems will the! Rough idling: start up, but it can fail, unfortunately pay attention! Causes timing chain and a call out for technical input tightly wound to the pulleys and.. With the gas pedal depressed you 're hearing your vin and I can good.

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