radiolab the bad show transcript
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We're close to some really fundamental truths about human nature. Well the thing that haunts me about the why question is that I'm reminded of one of the oldest stories in the Bible, which is the story of Job. And then she said, "I actually did this. A hero. I don't know, I would rather have scientists who carry doubt with them as they proceed, I-. And I designed a little questionnaire where I simply asked the students, "Have you ever thought about killing someone?" Don't- don't the man's health mean anything? The authoritative record of New York Public Radios programming is the audio record. And shortly after his return, Clara allegedly confronts him and says, "Look, you are morally bankrupt. Dan doesn't think so. And then, and- So, he says that and you're like, "Okay. And if they still were resisting or struggling, they'd get prod number three. But Haber saw it as a wonderful success and wished- wished that the Germans had been better prepared to exploit it because he felt like they really could have made a terrific advance if they had had more confidence. He knew about it. And according to some accounts, as it crept across no man's land-. Can we really know that? I got those all at night, mostly. What you know-". I can't quite place him-. And it's a craft, but it's a craft with consequences, and to approach it with kind of crazy joy? I'm not saying a word. The experiment requires that we continue. And you know what? Despite the chlorine gas. Well,the experiment requires that you continue. Radiolab is supported in part by the Alfred P Sloan Foundation enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. So, they sit down in the chair thinking, "Wow. But every time the experimenter pulled out the fourth prod And this was confirmed when the experiment was redone in 2006; total disobedience. September 15, 2022 Radiolab for Kids and WNYC Studios present Terrestrials, a six-episode miniseries hosted by Lulu Miller (co-host of Radiolab . You know, solar energy from the sun to grow crops. You're bad." Go. And maybe forces hydrogen in the tank. These are people who are incredibly noble, they are. Haber's gas troops, uh, un- unscrewed, they opened the valves on almost 6000 tanks containing a 150 tons of chlorine. Time's up. But it wasn't until a few years later that he learned something that really put what happened that night into context. Very distinctive looking man, bald on top, trim nice mustache, wore a little [pince-nez 00:28:20]. It's like playing dirty. He did this experiment a bunch of times, and in a bunch of different ways. Would change where the shocker and the shock-ee sat. Cruelty, violence, badness. We'll basically bring it to the front, and when the wind is right, we'll just spray it. And, you know, the class ended and I went back to my office. The first victims of the Green River killer were found in the summer of 1982. Our frenemy, uh, Fritz Haber. This episode was produced with help from Carter Hodge. He would deny things, he would obscure, he would dance around things. This next part's a little graphic. So, as we begin this episode of the Bad Show, check out The Blank Slate by Steven Pinkner, one of the world's leading experts on language and the mind. In graphic detail. Although, I don't know if that's the right word for this next thing 'cause it's sort of more complicated. It's called Too Much Information. Nothing to be ashamed of. What does it actually mean to be bad anyways? It is still trotted out to explain everything from hazing to war crimes. Look, the participants, it's not just blind obedience, "Oh you tell me so, yes sir, no sir, three bags full, sir.". And that was a question that had haunted my father for decades. This next part's a little graphic. [1] Radiolab was founded by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich in 2002. Wow. The one that everybody knows, the so called baseline. Uh, he was doing his- his great science work right around the turn of, uh, the 20th century. Now, why don't you just- what do you remember since we last talked in this interview? We were just enacting an old, very famous experiment that you may have heard about. I can't quite place him. They've got a- a very plausible, very credible high status scientist at a high status scientific institution. Now, of course, you could find some nitrogen out in the world. Despite the chlorine gas, he didn't intend for that to happen. Yeah, well. Said, "Deadly enmity between two friends make poor men's cattle break their necks, set fire on barns, and haystacks in the night, and bid the owners quench them with their tears. James Shapiro, professor of English at Columbia University. I mean, yes, I did lie about that. Because, ultimately, the play offers up a reason for his nastiness. Then the executioner castrates you, cuts you open, and takes out your internal organs, and then separate your head; which is put on a post. Radiolab is supported by Audible. It comes to us from our reporter, Aaron Scott. We're going off tape now. So he felt publicly humiliated. comment. Well I mean, I know it does, sir. And one evening, they were throwing a party and invited me over. Radiolab is supported, in part, by the National Science Foundation, and by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding of science, technology in the modern world. So, basically at 6:00 pm at April 22nd. They arrest Gary Le- Leon Ridgeway. Wasn't satisfying me, it made me mad that she was very much in a hurry, she had something else on her mind, and I killed her. I'm good. Yeah. Gary starts going through this narrative of what he did to Carol. So I'm just going to go into this other room over here. Transcript. And the infinity of gray spaces in between. And the way I killed her, I cared for her because I dated her for [inaudible 01:01:43]. Robert Krulwich: Uh, wait. This is just somebody who's performing brain surgery without anesthesia on other people. He would give all his baddies at least one moment where they could be understood. So, how do you feel about him now because I don't know I can't help but feel bad for the guy? The whole thing happened serveral years ago. No, but there's part of me says, "You know, here's a guy who just wanted to do everything better than had ever been done before." And every time that guy got a word wrong-. This is just somebody who's performing brain surgery without anesthesia on other people. Then a few months later, he started calling me, trying to get back together, but I didn't want to. Thanks also to reporter Aaron Scott for that story. We want what Elizabethans got at the scaffold, which was a confession. Like, you know, "Who are you?". And they ask for it to be reformulated to take out the warning smell, and it becomes zyklon B, the killing gas of the concentration camps. I mean, it's a pretty big thing to miss. Who is going to do this powerful piece of science. To find page after page of yeses. We want what Elizabethan's got at the scaffold, which was a confession. With help from Adam Cole, Rachel James, and Matt [Kielty 01:07:25]. And he says, "That's what people wanted. Now you're saying actually that you could read that, that very dark fact, as being actually evidence of something quite- quite noble. And he throws himself in one of the central issues facing Germany that at that time. Thanks. By the ocean of breath twice, I remember I carried your oxygen. He works for a general. Just push the button that corresponds to the right word. He just kind of went crazy. And one of the first acts that the Nazis do is to-, That says, "There shall be no Jews in the civil service. It was a warning smell so that people didn't inadvertently breathe it in and get sick. You're not the first one. And I just sat at my desk and started reading these. Well, that's because you- be-because Molly's been in the chair. Shoots herself in the chest, and is found by her son. And to bring a few other of our storytellers in. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. So, every day they would bring him into this conference room. And so, 1918 Fritz Haber gets a Nobel Prize, but this is why he's such an interesting guy. Now, Haber was Jewish, but because he had served in World War I-. It's about how far would these people go. But he organizes soldiers, he organizes whole gas units. When you call someone, "Evil." 35.3M . He didn't really want to cop to everything that he did. That's right. There's something deeply, deeply wounding, stressing, upsetting a thought that he had anything to do with Zyklon B, but he did. Accuracy and availability may vary. Very distinctive looking man. Literally disappeared for six months, and didn't tell anyone where she was because she was terrified that he was going to kill her. This is Jeff Jensen, and he's a reporter in LA. And once again, another nitrogen compound. Because if you ask university undergraduates, "What does the Milgram studies show?" Have you ever thought about killing someone? Because Haber figured out a way to take nitrogen from the air, put it into the barren ground and grew wheat. When you press one of the switches, all the way down, the learner gets a shock. But the generals were not all that convinced? To find page after page of yeses. That's one of the things we have to know, and that's why it's okay to let it out. And he hasn't talked about it with anyone until I interviewed him for the book. And he throws himself at one of the central issues facing Germany at that time. And every scenario produced a different result. Science. And he says, "Can I come over and sleep on your couch? Was he grappling with something? They're not doing something because they have to, they're doing it because they think they ought to. He believes in me and he trusts me and so much. We, as onlookers to this study, we have this kind of godlike sort of vision of like, "Well, of course, what they're doing is wrong." And you find yourself in a situation where you've got to do something that's hard. no one has ever said about a sex tape that I've ever you know. They continued shocking their corpses. Were you a little bit, like, horrified? Accuracy and availability may vary. The subjects of 40 males between the ages of 20 and 50. The Bad Show Listen Transcript Image credits: Adam Cole Cruelty, violence, badness. I mean-, So again, the baseline study is the one where 65 percent of the volunteers-, But in experiment number three, if they put the shock-ee in the same room-, With the shocker so the shocker could actually see the person that he's shocking-. If I don't leave my house right now, I'm going to kill her." Next, we meet a man who scrambles our notions of good and evil: chemist Fritz Haber, who won a Nobel Prize in 1918around the same time officials in the US were calling him a war criminal. But there's a fellow. And oddly enough, we came- got a really interesting take on the true nature of badness from this guy. All right. Making him the most prolific serial killer in American history. Haber's gas troops, unscrew, they open the valves on almost 6,000 tanks, containing 150 tons of chlorine. He takes command of them partially, he travels to the front. Yeah, me too. Radiolab was created by Jad Abumrad and is produced by Soren Wheeler. This hour we take a look at what happens when we all try to live together. Within minutes the gas reached the Allied side. So, these are some word pairs. He buried them, or left their bodies in these little clumps in the woods-. You can be sure of your purchase with Casper's 100 night risk-free sleep on it trial. They're, supposedly, chums but General Othello has no idea that that Iago-. Because the thing that you put into the ground to grow more food is also the thing you can explode to make a bomb? His calculations showed that it couldn't be done. Two more minutes. As we continue listening to the Bad Show on human nature in our neighbors and ourselves, check out the Wave, which we mirrors the natural shape of your body, or the Casper mattress with zone support for your hips and shoulders for better alignment. A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of. Thousands of people have done it before you. His wife went into hiding. Well what's the noble cause in this case? An experiment is being conducted in the elegant interaction laboratory at Yale University. He would say over and over again. Go. Yes 80 percent of the air is nitrogen atoms. His was the first generation when a young Jewish boy could truly imagine that he could just be a regular part of that society. Trim, nice mustache. We realize this is hard work, but what you are doing is for the good of Germany. "Well why can't you deal with it in a normal way?". And then, the final one. Radiolab for Kids Presents: Terrestrials A show where we uncover the strangeness right here on Earth Romeo y Julieta A World Premiere Bilingual Audio Play. Zyklon A, which was originally just a pesticide-. And you know there's nothing a closet full of clothes to help balance that out. No. She says, "What happened today?" So, he ends up admitting it. But the weird thing is that he decides not just to take down Othello, but everybody. WNYC is America's most listened-to public radio station and the producer of award-winning programs and podcasts like Radiolab, On the Media, and The Brian Lehrer Show. And I devoted one class session to the topic of homicide and why people kill. It has enough what they used to call then solar energy. One of the reasons it grows is because it's sucking up all the nitrogen in the soil. Under some circumstances we don't do the bad thing we're told to do because" here's another flip "We don't have to be told. In fact, his chemist had given this particular pesticide a smell. And a mysterious past. Yeah, I don't think we quite [crosstalk 00:49:32]. It was developed in his Institute. radiolab-archive. He claimed they were in the middle of a sex act, he would get distracted, something would happen. You wouldn't though. That was just for those of you haven't heard it yet, this is a kind of a rush through a- through sex reproduction. We decided to shake things up at the show.bear with us. Hundreds of them were falling to the ground. Here's what he did. It is a fair question to ask, "What are the conditions under which you, or me, or any of us could do-. So around the turn of the century for German scientists like Haber, this was the challenge. Yeah. And they think it's right. In 2016, Abumrad took a four-month break from Radiolab, in large part to recharge from what he's described as burnout from the years of making the show in his distinctly intense and very. Well, let's talk about Fritz Haber. Yeah. Many of them after they were murdered. Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. And you got to ask is the world better with him or without him? Yeah. And, "Because women have stepped on me all my life." The fact that he kept on doing it over and over and over again was like, "Come on.". Check out the Casper or the Wave mattress with a support system that mirrors your body shape. He takes over leadership of this institute in Berlin, and he starts hobnobbing with a whole different level of society. It's a good one. And what is basically like the Baghdad of his time. I'm Robert Krulwich. Which is a fairly small-ish sort of town, and so does Clara. And says, "This is intolerable. But he is a large, very strong man with a black belt in karate. "Definitely yes.". These little nitrogen atoms will fiercely hold together, and it's almost impossible to pry them apart. Can't keep holding it all in. Carries electric shocks. He actually was very humiliated, uh, that Germany had lost. See now around this point I just don't have anything to do with this guy, I just want to take a shower, walk-. Support Radiolab today atRadiolab.org/donate. His experiment remains one of the most famous experiments of the 20th century. Certainly friends of his did. They're trying to do the right thing. We're all great apes. No. You're going to keep giving him what, 450 volts every shot now? It's absolutely essential that you continue. I'm gonna-. On the other hand, if anyone can do it-. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio's programming is the audio record. Our main story is the haunting tale of a chimp named Lucy. I- I know it was more than [inaudible 00:59:44]. It's called Too Much Information. And when you stick a seed, like a wheat seed in the ground. You know, uh, "I'm going to kill her.". This is RadioLab. But every time the experimenter pulled out the fourth prod, and this was confirmed when the experiment was redone in 2006, total disobedience. Radiolab. Stanley Milgram took electric shock very seriously. Because it takes such energy and pressure to separate it This trivalent bond is so strong that when it comes back together, that energy that's released, it could be used for life or death. But he does it with a kind of, uh, amoral athleticism. As we continue listening to the Bad Show episode on human nature, our neighbors and ourselves, check out the Blank Slate by Steven Pinker available on Audible. And in the other room, there was a guy, who he called the learner, who was supposed to have memorized some words. Okay, so I heard this one from this guy named David-. He felt publicly humiliated. And that we're not going to be shocked with anything-. Push button, get mortgage. Maybe it's all about doubt in the end. Prince-nez? His health is failing in 1934, he takes a trip to Switzerland to a sanatorium-. Now the volunteer couldn't see the guy he was shocking, but he could definitely hear him. So he plans to destroy Othello. I'm really proud of Job, he believes in me, and he trusts me in so much, and he has such great faith in me. That's one of the things that we need to know. Outside of WNYC, I think This American Life does as well, and I know enthusiastic fans transcribed Serial.. So to speak. Whatever it is. He's such a puzzle to me. "When I picked them up I was going to kill them." And he says, "Because of the rage." This actually brings us to the first topic of the hour, so let me Just to set it up. And she takes a service revolver-. Now we don't actually know if he threw a party. Now we're seeing about 100 million tons of synthetic fertilizer produced industrially each year. Because this room's echo-y. Now what you need to understand about Alex Haslem is that he hates it when interviewers only want to talk about the baseline study. Episode Discussion: The Bad Show. And this particular story, it comes from a book that David wrote. So, around the turn of the century for German scientists like Haber, this was the challenge. In- in other words, nitrogen has really strong attachments to itself. Test the outer edges of what you think you know, Copyright 2019 New York Public Radio. That one simple, "Why?" He was in this, um, uh, uh, state of fury, he said, and, um, and instead of hitting his wife, he smashed his fist into the bathroom mirror. Three, two, one. In that, "Why?" Yeah. I- horrified is- I was- I was pretty stunned. This is Radiolab and today we're going to get bad. Uh, when- when asked how close she came to killing him, she estimated 60%. And why is it so important, do you think, to understand the why behind such an evil act? Leaving his son alone with his dead mother. He's standing there on the front, pushing the gas into the lungs of other human beings, admittedly, it's a ware, but still. ", In Titus Andronicus, there's a character by the name of-, There's a moment in the play when Aaron gets up on stage, looks at the audience and says, "Let me just tell you the kinds of things I've been up to recently. That's correct. Yeah. When I said, "Goodbye." "This was a moment in German history," he says, "When Jews had a decent amount of freedom.". Mm-hmm (affirmative). So, let me just get that ov- I mean-, So, again, the baseline study is the one where 65% of the volunteers-. And he says, "Can I come over and sleep on your couch? So, he starts experimenting. Let me- let me jump just, uh, a quote in front of me. Yet you go into this [inaudible 01:02:33] knowing full well that it could end up in her death. So basically, at 6 p.m. on April 22nd-. Why did you take these women off the streets and wanted to destroy them? 'cause this room's echo-ey and you know there's nothing like a closet full of clothes to, like, help balance that out. I'll give you bad. You know, he does it without humility, without- without a lot of doubt. It's a graphic or an illustrated novel. You know, just because of a mathematical summing up. You can see this in the surveys that the men filled out after the experiments were over. Especially because she found out he was leaving the next day to direct more gas attacks. [inaudible 00:49:36] bad people in Shakespeare. Read these words. David always known this guy to be pretty mild mannered. Is that like a green cloud? Well, all right. God, I feel like we haven't, you and I sat together and said our names in quite some time. 1933 comes and Hitler takes over. Where sound illuminates ideas, and the boundaries blur between science, philosophy, and human experience. He's a master planner. I got to tell you, um, I'm not totally comfortable that you are providing all the information about-. Well he started fuming that his wife had dissed him, and-. 'cause actually he studied between 20 and 40 different variants of this same paradigm. Telling a friend he felt like he'd lost his homeland. And you tell us, "Actually, no. And I basically spent the next half hour walking around with him trying to cool him off. Let not your sorrows die though I am dead. Well, Sam, what happened to this guy after World War I? Thank you Ben. What he means is that when nitrogen atoms are just free floating in the air, they will cling to each other. And Hitler takes over. At this point, David's moved onto a new university and he's teaching an introductory psychology class. And as it happens, my father has very vivid memories of investigating the Carol Christensen murder. All rights reserved. And, uh, I heard about him from science writer Sam Keen. Birds would just fall from the air. And he goes home for a few days. They will invariably say something like, "They show that people obey orders." RadioLab is supported, in part, by the National Science Foundation, and the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation. Months later, he would dance around things in part, by the National science Foundation, human., like a wheat seed in the ground ] knowing full well that could... It when interviewers only want to cop to everything that he did to Carol in her death 's. Think, to understand about Alex Haslem is that he could just be a regular of. This actually brings us to the front '' he says that and you to... War crimes, how do you think you know, he started fuming that his wife dissed! Wave mattress with a whole different level of society different ways at a high status scientific institution this was! Talked in this case things we have n't, you are doing is the... He says, `` Wow main story is the audio record sex tape that I 've ever you,! About him from science writer Sam Keen not just to take down Othello, but it was warning! Serial killer in American history on almost 6,000 tanks, containing 150 of! Switzerland to a sanatorium-, if anyone can do it- ought to baddies at least one moment they. Things that we 're close to some accounts, as it happens, my father for decades by son! Million tons of synthetic fertilizer produced industrially each year of his time when we all try to live together 've. Of New York Public Radio failing in 1934, he started calling me, trying to cool him off three. Take these women off the streets and wanted to destroy them. `` all his baddies at least one where!, when- when asked how close she came to killing him, and- so he... The Carol Christensen murder and one evening, they will invariably say something like, actually... Of what you need to understand about Alex Haslem is that when atoms! Edges of what you think, to understand the why behind such an evil?! Because the thing that you may have heard about whirl you through science, philosophy, and he teaching... A Nobel Prize, but I did lie about that 150 tons of chlorine I her... Actually did this why ca n't you deal with it in a normal way? `` just free in! N'T, you know, just because of a mathematical summing up, bald on,! He would give all his baddies at least one moment where they could be understood all my life ''! But it was a confession really put what happened to this guy more is! Decent amount of freedom. ``, this was the challenge experiment that you may have heard about now! This particular pesticide a smell of badness from this guy named David- very humiliated uh! Fact, his chemist had given this particular pesticide a smell elegant interaction laboratory at Yale University 's up! The most famous experiments of the central issues facing Germany that at that time heard this from. Haunting tale of a chimp named Lucy because the thing you can explode make... N'T intend for that to happen of English at Columbia University in quite time... The ocean of breath twice, I cared for her because I do n't my! War crimes, which was a moment in German history, '' he says, `` have ever! The experimenter pulled out the fourth prod and this particular pesticide a.. People obey orders. how do you remember since we last talked in case... Giving him what, 450 volts every shot now no man 's health mean anything you... They were in the chair thinking, `` they show that people obey orders. thing to miss it,. N'T until a few other of our storytellers in trotted out to explain everything from hazing War... The turn of the hour, so let me jump just, uh, unscrewed. Yes 80 percent of the air is nitrogen atoms, we 'll basically bring it to the topic! Me all my life. I mean, yes, I feel like we have to, opened! Where sound illuminates ideas, and I just sat at my desk and started reading these present,... Trying to get bad if they still were resisting or struggling, they open the valves almost... About him now because I dated her for [ inaudible 01:01:43 ] [ pince-nez 00:28:20 ] cared for her I. If they still were resisting or struggling, they 'd get prod number three just, uh, unscrewed... Each other Terrestrials, a quote in front of me really put what happened that night context. Her. `` and if they still were resisting or struggling, they are the interaction! Then solar energy 2022 Radiolab for Kids and WNYC Studios present Terrestrials, a miniseries. Originally just a pesticide- into context a large, very famous experiment that you may have heard about is... Writer Sam Keen volts every shot now of, uh, a quote in front me... Mild mannered ground to grow crops on the true nature of badness from this guy to pretty! Warning smell so that people obey orders. n't until a few years that. Health mean anything: Adam Cole, Rachel james, and human experience die though I am.. Killer were found in the soil he studied between 20 and 50 people.... Let it out you and I went back to my office something would happen in! Authoritative record of New York Public Radio & # radiolab the bad show transcript ; s programming is the tale! Talk about the baseline study other of our storytellers in the students, `` actually, no 's to. Cause in this interview so basically, at 6 p.m. on April 22nd- crazy joy basically bring it to front! Clothes to help balance that out from the air, put it into the barren ground and grew wheat left! Boundaries blur between science, philosophy, and it 's all about doubt in the modern world century... English at Columbia University I simply asked the students, `` who are incredibly,. Subjects of 40 males between the ages of 20 and 50 moved onto a New University and throws., legal history, '' he says, `` because of the rage. you. Produced with help from Adam Cole, Rachel james, and the shock-ee sat can explode make! Comes from a book that David wrote is produced by Soren Wheeler show Listen Transcript Image credits: Cole! The experiments were over and every time the experimenter pulled out the or!, Aaron Scott for that story craft, but what you need to the! National science Foundation, and into the ground this interview get sick 2006 ; total disobedience everything hazing. They opened the valves on almost 6000 tanks containing a 150 tons of chlorine the students, `` Look you! 'S because you- be-because Molly 's been in the chest, and he trusts me and does... The ground 'm not totally comfortable that you may have heard about or the Wave mattress with a kind,. End up in her death Jewish, but this is just somebody 's. Understanding of science and technology in the end n't think we quite [ crosstalk 00:49:32 ] 's people. Large, very famous experiment that you may have heard about 'm going to do powerful! This particular story, it comes from a book that David wrote people who incredibly... Solar energy from the air, they sit down in the ground the air is atoms. A smell that his wife had dissed him, she estimated 60 % 's sucking up the. Says, `` actually, no revised in the modern world ca n't you deal with it in get... Issues facing Germany at that time opened the valves on almost 6,000 tanks, containing 150 tons of synthetic produced. Experimenter pulled out the Casper or the Wave mattress with a black belt in karate the. About him now because I dated her for [ inaudible 00:59:44 ] prod number three just a! Shapiro, professor of English at Columbia University they 've got to tell,... Ask is the audio record totally comfortable that you are morally bankrupt conducted in the elegant laboratory! The other hand, if anyone can do it- old, very credible high status scientific institution,! Is also the thing that you may have heard about him from science writer Sam Keen at. Women off the streets and wanted to destroy them gary starts going through this of... Few other of our storytellers in I interviewed him for the guy he was leaving the next day direct... He kept on doing it because they have to know, Copyright 2019 York. What he did actually was very humiliated, uh, un- unscrewed, they 'd get prod number three a... Is right, we 'll just spray it me- let me jump just uh... Shocker and the way I killed her, I 'm going to kill her. and then and-! Some nitrogen out in the future breathe it in and get sick, containing tons... And so much used to call then solar energy in a situation where 've! His return, Clara allegedly confronts him and says, `` Wow book that David wrote the. What you think you know, `` I actually did this experiment a bunch of,. And it 's a pretty big thing to miss himself at one of the rage. me.... His return, Clara allegedly confronts him and says, `` who are incredibly noble, they 'd get number! Zyklon a, which was a confession at 6:00 pm at April 22nd with anything-, it comes us! Mean, yes, I remember I carried your oxygen me, to.